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Forums > Super Sound > Derek and The Dominos: Layla (1970) [MFSL Gold CD] |
Posted by: lovemusic on 29-04-2007, 14:28 | ||||||||||||||||||
Linear notes by Tom Dowd Fate dealt me a Spade, Ace High Royal Flush one day during the month of July, 1970. I was working with the Allman Brothers Band putting the finishing touches on their Idlewild South album for Atlantic Records. Normally, during recording sessions, I refuse to take telephone calls unless it is an extreme emergency. Because this was an overseas phone call from Robert Stigwood, I thought I'd better accept it rather than try to track him down later. The session stopped while I held a conversation with Mr. Stigwood. He indicated that Eric Clapton had expressed a desire to record with me. This was the first time that I had any communication from Eric since the "Cream" days. When I finished the call, I apologized to Duane and the band about the interruption and mentioned Eric's name. Duane was all over me in about 10 seconds. He ended up asking if I thought it would be OK for him to come by the studio while we were recording so that he could watch and possibly meet Eric. Knowing Eric and Duane, my reply was that I thought it would be OK, but "let me check with Eric when he gets here." Several weeks later, Eric and The Dominos arrived in the Miami area and we went into the studio to start the recording process. Eric, Bobby Whitlock and Carl Radle indicated to me that they had several songs in the "almost ready to record" mode and that they had ideas for some others that they would like to run by me. In order to be able to commu¬nicate better with the band, I had tapes rolling whenever they presented a new song. In this way I could play back a portion that I thought was good and let them hear them¬selves at the same time. During this schedule I took yet another phone call, this one from Duane, asking if he could come by the studio. The Allman Brothers were going to play an outdoor concert at the Miami Beach Convention Center on Saturday evening and he would like to drop by the studio after the show. When I finished that phone call, I described to Eric that Duane would like to meet him and Eric promptly looked at me and said, "you mean the chap who played on the end of Wilson Pickett's recording of Hey Jude?" Without having ever met these two artists were deeply aware of the other's talent! Derek And The Dominos worked all of that Saturday afternoon and then took a break to go to the Allman's concert. Later that evening both bands came back to the studio and started playing the blues. Duane and Eric watched and talked to each other from time to time during the jams, they even switched guitars! It was obvious that the two of them were perfect for each other. Duane had one or two more dates to do but wanted to come back and play on the album. In 15 days time the entire Layla album was recorded and overdubbed including all vocals and guitar solos! Needless to say, the intensity was high. There were no egos involved, it was just that everybody wanted to play and fit as best he could. All of the individuals involved per¬petually encouraged each other. Eric's road manager went to a local store and picked up 6 Kodak Instamatic cameras and handed them to members of the band one day. Yet another stroke of genius, you see that was what made up the art work that went on the inside of the album! One of the most important things that contributed to the sound of the Layla album was the equipment that the artists used. When I was recording the group Cream, both Jack Bruce and Eric were using double stacks of Marshall amps and Ginger Baker was using a double set of kick drums. When The Dominos came to the studio in Miami, Eric had switched to playing on either a Fender Champ or a Fender Twin. Carl Radle was playing on a smaller bass rig and Jim Gordon was a control drummer. This meant that they could all play in the same room without having to isolate the instuments or use the earphones. When Duane joined in on the sessions, he too played on a smaller amplifier so that they could all hear and react to each other's playing just as if they were an informal round table discussion. Some of the vocals were done live on the studio floor while the band was playing! The leakage among the different microphones contributed to the overall sound of the album. I took a few days off, listened to some rough mixes and then decided I was well enough prepared to remix the entire album. It may have taken me as many as three or four days to complete the mixes and send copies to New York and the UK. The entire project took about 21 days. Two weeks later Derek And The Dominos showed up in Miami to play a concert and sit down with me to redo/repair several parts on two or three songs. They had done their homework well indeed, a vocal touch-up here and there, a guitar fill or a solo switch. You see they remembered what they had played and wanted to make certain that I had chosen the parts that I had used, with good reason. At this sitting they then played for me the piano part that was to placed at the end of Layla. This meant that we had to recreate the same sound in the studio as we had during the original sessions, and then add this new, yet-to-played-part! Remember, there was no such thing as automation or computers available at that time. Thank goodness for the wonderful records kept by the engineers on the equipment used and the settings involved. We came close to the "mixed" sound of Layla, played it into the studio and added the now-famous piano ending. The record was released and did absolutely nothing for one year. But, because the group was touring and Atlantic and RSO Records had faith in the product plus the intensity, artistry and sincerity of all of the musicians involved, the record buying public took the album to their hearts. It is worthy of noting that in 1993 the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences awarded a Grammy to Eric Clapton and Jim Gordon for the song Layla, twenty-three years after the album was recorded. You see, there was no category for "Rock and Roll" in the early days ... May 5,1993
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Posted by: Djubei on 30-04-2007, 15:22 |
скачал, послушал..... какой то глухой звук показалось. Подожду вариант runo |
Posted by: yury_usa on 30-04-2007, 16:17 |
а у руно разве не то же самое? |
Posted by: Djubei on 30-04-2007, 16:20 |
я говорю, что звук какой то глухой показалось. Просто runo только только собирался выложить, а тут раз и нате. |
Posted by: kokiku on 30-04-2007, 21:41 |
Странно, но звук действительно никакой. |
Posted by: Djubei on 30-04-2007, 22:00 |
О! А то я уж забеспокоился, неужели у меня чего то с ушами. Вот меня это и смутило. А так как я многое (очень многое) прожигаю на болвань, то не хочеться обжигаться P.S. Опять же совпадение такое. Может у меня параноя, но преценденты были. |
Posted by: runo on 01-05-2007, 18:27 |
Диск записан в оригинале грязно, так что с ушами все в порядке. К сожалению не вся хорошая музыка хорошо записана - это тот самый случай! Я могу рипнуть и прислать для сравнения CRC - вот сверим и тогда все будет ясно! |
Posted by: yury_usa on 01-05-2007, 18:42 |
это очень странно, потому как у Стива на форуме многие люди предпочитают MOFI |
Posted by: Djubei on 01-05-2007, 19:13 | ||
P.S. А что такое Compression offset? |
Posted by: runo on 01-05-2007, 20:02 | ||
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Posted by: yury_usa on 01-05-2007, 20:29 | ||||
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Posted by: runo on 01-05-2007, 20:43 | ||||||
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Posted by: Гордый on 01-05-2007, 22:54 | ||
А это что?
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Posted by: DavidC on 01-05-2007, 23:11 |
А обложки можно выложить отдельно, я раньше скачал этот альбом, но без обложек, заранее спасибо |
Posted by: Djubei on 02-05-2007, 08:12 | ||||||
Честная то она -честная. Но неужели все так просто. Вот читаю я интервью Хоффмана, ссылку на которую давал runo. Он там действительно говорит, что самое сложное - найти ту самую мастер ленту, а остальное мол, дело техники. Только он сам себе противоречит, поскольку потом рассказал, каких трудов ему стоило сделать ремастер Hotel California. Иначе, любой счастливый обладатель мастер ленты делает тупо трансфер - и вуаля, можно толкать в массы. Мы ж сами здесь рассуждаем, что вот у Hoffmana звучит так, у Дуга Сакса так. Разница то не только есть между именами режиссеров, но еще и слышна простыми неподготовленными ушами. Взять того же Lightnin' Hopkins....ну или вот yury_usa выкладывал John Lee Hooker. Эти то записи уж точно должны грязнее звучать, чем Clapton.
Вот и спросил, молчат чего все |
Posted by: runo on 02-05-2007, 09:15 |
Еще раз говорю - сама запись в оригинале звучит ПЛОХО - мутно, глухо и т.д. Это совсем не СУПЕР САУНД! Ну что теперь делать?! Остается довольствоваться лучшей версией. По мнению многих - лучшая ЦД версия это MFSL! |
Posted by: runo on 07-05-2007, 18:58 |
Вот рипнул! Вот какой лог и куй получились! EAC extraction logfile from 7. May 2007, 19:54 for CD Derek And The Dominoes / Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs [MFSL UDCD 585] Used drive : PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A Adapter: 1 ID: 0 Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache Read offset correction : 30 Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No Used output format : Internal WAV Routines 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo Other options : Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No Installed external ASPI interface Range status and errors Selected range Filename C:\TO COPY\TO SEND\Derek And The Dominoes - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs [MFSL UDCD 585].wav Peak level 92.1 % Range quality 100.0 % CRC 6682BC3B Copy OK No errors occured End of status report REM GENRE Rock REM DATE 1970 REM DISCID DA120C0E REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.95b4" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" TITLE "Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs [MFSL UDCD 585]" FILE "Derek And The Dominoes - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs [MFSL UDCD 585].wav" WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO TITLE "I Looked Away" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 00:00:00 INDEX 01 00:00:37 TRACK 02 AUDIO TITLE "Bell Bottom Blues" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 03:05:20 INDEX 01 03:06:55 TRACK 03 AUDIO TITLE "Keep On Growing" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 01 08:09:65 TRACK 04 AUDIO TITLE "Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 14:31:07 INDEX 01 14:32:07 TRACK 05 AUDIO TITLE "I Am Yours" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 19:29:28 INDEX 01 19:30:35 TRACK 06 AUDIO TITLE "Anyday" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 23:05:67 INDEX 01 23:06:67 TRACK 07 AUDIO TITLE "Key To The Highway" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 01 29:43:52 TRACK 08 AUDIO TITLE "Tell The Truth" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 39:21:10 INDEX 01 39:23:40 TRACK 09 AUDIO TITLE "Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad?" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 01 46:02:55 TRACK 10 AUDIO TITLE "Have You Ever Loved A Woman" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 01 50:46:12 TRACK 11 AUDIO TITLE "Little Wing" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 57:38:15 INDEX 01 57:39:50 TRACK 12 AUDIO TITLE "It's Too Late" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 01 63:13:62 TRACK 13 AUDIO TITLE "Layla" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 67:03:65 INDEX 01 67:04:65 TRACK 14 AUDIO TITLE "Thorn Tree In The Garden" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominoes" INDEX 00 74:08:58 INDEX 01 74:09:60 Надо ли выкладывать? |
Posted by: yury_usa on 07-05-2007, 19:09 |
странно, опять CRC не совпал. Может в первом рипе был самопал? |
Posted by: soxatyi on 07-05-2007, 19:39 |
. |
Posted by: Djubei on 07-05-2007, 20:21 |
А теперь сравним куи REM GENRE Rock REM DATE 1970 REM DISCID D7120C0E REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.95b4" CATALOG 0000000000000 PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" TITLE "Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs" FILE "Derek And The Dominos - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs.wav" WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO TITLE "I Looked Away" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 01 00:00:00 TRACK 02 AUDIO TITLE "Bell Bottom Blues" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 03:04:57 INDEX 01 03:06:17 TRACK 03 AUDIO TITLE "Keep On Growing" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 01 08:09:27 TRACK 04 AUDIO TITLE "Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 14:30:45 INDEX 01 14:31:45 TRACK 05 AUDIO TITLE "I Am Yours" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 19:28:65 INDEX 01 19:29:72 TRACK 06 AUDIO TITLE "Anyday" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 23:05:30 INDEX 01 23:06:30 TRACK 07 AUDIO TITLE "Key To The Highway" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 01 29:43:15 TRACK 08 AUDIO TITLE "Tell The Truth" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 39:20:47 INDEX 01 39:23:02 TRACK 09 AUDIO TITLE "Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad?" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 01 46:02:17 TRACK 10 AUDIO TITLE "Have You Ever Loved A Woman" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 01 50:45:50 TRACK 11 AUDIO TITLE "Little Wing" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 57:37:52 INDEX 01 57:39:12 TRACK 12 AUDIO TITLE "It's Too Late" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 01 63:13:25 TRACK 13 AUDIO TITLE "Layla" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 67:03:27 INDEX 01 67:04:27 TRACK 14 AUDIO TITLE "Thorn Tree In The Garden" PERFORMER "Derek And The Dominos" INDEX 00 74:08:20 INDEX 01 74:09:22 Я не профи, и в куях ничего не понимаю, но то, что я точно знаю, что они не совпадают. А я так понимаю, что должны??? |
Posted by: OlCh on 08-05-2007, 06:33 |
судя по картинкам - оригинал, если сравнить пиковые уровни - совпадают, но в куях полное разногласие, а такого даже при грубом определении пауз не должно быть. может он из треков собирал свой рип? а чего гадать, может кто спросит у него по англицки и что-бы без обид? |
Posted by: lovemusic on 09-05-2007, 18:49 |
Sorry, I don't speak russian, but if I undertand the discussion here well (combining similarities between my native Slavic language and russian with russ key plugin in Firefox): 1. you are not satisfied with the quality of CD 2. there is a question about compression offset in log file and 3. you are even suspicious if this was the real rip from the original CD. Ad 1. I can do nothing about that. I was also disappointed a bit when I bought this MFSL (comparing to what I remember about the sound of my vynill long time ago), but as it could happen due to many psychological reasons and I liked this album so much, I didn't pay much attention to that. Still I like it a lot, even in this version. Ad 2. I gave you the link to the little discussion about this compression offset on HQShare.net (with my answer there), because I don't speak russian and didn't want to use it in comments more than necessary. So, compression offset is something that is here from the times when I was ripping not only the CDImage, but MP3 tracks, too. Maybe it is not correct one, but it was autodetected by EAC for the choosen externall lame compressor. But, what is important, it has nothing to do with ripping to wave image, as proved by Ston3y (see the above hqshare link). Ad 3. Yes, it is the rip of my original and legally bought MFSL CD, done by EAC with Plextor PX-750A using Action-Copy Image & Create Cue Sheet-Uncompressed. All options are set to what are the HQShare.net rules (I believe you know them) and according to the little ripping manual on that site. All my rips are done at the speed of 0,6-0,7x (whenever I use external ASPI interface, and I use it always for the rips I post somewhere). Here is the EAC screen with this page in background, with my Layla MFSL CD in Plextor drive. I bought this CD in an audiophile shop with world known brands of amplifiers, CD players, loudspeakers, turntables ... and only MFSL, Chesky and few Audioqest CDs - And I am quite sure this is not pirated disc. You have all covers and CD label scanned, so I can only say that it is gold CD, in that "strange" tray that releases CD when pulled up with the front box cover. And, if I understood well, OICh asked if this rip was made from ripped tracks? No, it is ripped CD image with the options mentioned above. I don't know what to say more. I don't know much about CRCs, kuyakh (??) etc etc. I'm just the music lover who wanted to share the music he likes. And as I couldn't find this album on net, I decided to post it, ripped in accordance to HQShare.net posting rules. And I am sorry if you are disappointed. And really very sorry that I don't speak russian (I'd like to) and write this post in english (also not very good), although I know that official language on this site is russian. But I just wanted to say that there was no cheating with this rip, I wouldn't dare to do something like that to the people whose shares I enjoy. And why should I do that when I can download uploading nothing. And last, but not the least, I am too old (listening Layla when first published) even to think about doing something like that. If you are still suspicious, administrators can delete this post or at least block eDonkey/Kadmelia CD link. I wouldn't be offended. Best regards. |
Posted by: yury_usa on 09-05-2007, 19:04 | ||
We really do appreciate your effort, lovemusic it's very interesting, that Runo's cuesheet has Pre-Gap in first track:
do you have "gap detection: secure" set in EAC. Also, couild you paste the same screenshot you did, but with gaps detected. Also a cd-scan would be nice, since you might have different matrix #. Thanks for your help. I'm starting to believe this has something to do with manufacturer and how the CD was pressed |
Posted by: lovemusic on 10-05-2007, 11:49 | ||||
Well, although I feel more and more like I'm in the Courtroom, let's do it. 1. NOT GUILTY, Your Honor 2. Additional evidence you asked for and that will prove my innocence: a) Gap detection method: EAC screen with detected gaps c) Layla in new ripping process (with compression offset turned off) d) Log fron the new rip:
e) Cue sheet from the new rip:
f) Although already uploaded, new CD scan: g) Opposite side CD scan g)1. Zoom of the opposite side CD scan h) With Layla CD in CD drive, Music collector screen: Let's go on with closings: You Honor, with the evidence above and the evidence presented in the previous post, including the uploaded file itself (with cuesheet, log, and all scans), we are assured that we had proved our defendant (myself) innocent and that the only possible verdict the jury can reach is: NOT GUILTY. Has the Jury reached the verdict? |
Posted by: OlCh on 10-05-2007, 12:40 |
переведите плис кто-нибудь мы здесь не судьи и он не обвиняемый просто пытаемся (и уже не первый раз, а и с другими дисками) разобраться почему часто получаются некоторые отличия в рипах с одинаковых дисков? и я, например, предполагая лишь, что его рип мог быть сделан с потрекового рипа, ни капельки не сомневался, что его рип сделан с оригинального диска! lovemusic my friend, excuse me, I wanted not to say that your rip is not from original disc |
Posted by: OlCh on 10-05-2007, 12:50 | ||
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Posted by: lovemusic on 10-05-2007, 14:36 | ||
No need for excuses, I was just joking. Regarding different rips and CRCs, I noticed the same CRC and even the same range quality (99,9) in both my rips. |
Posted by: yury_usa on 10-05-2007, 16:29 | ||
lovemusic Thank you for the wonderful analysis. And don't get me wrong, I knew from the beginning you had an original, but I thought it was a different pressing like "Made In Japan" MFSL or just different matrix. What is even more interesting is different cuesheets. Btw, here's translation of OlCh's message right after your long one:
OlCh Я вроде про куи спрашивал, ведь они разные |
Posted by: lovemusic on 10-05-2007, 19:44 |
yury usa Thanks for the translation. If needed, please translate my post to OlCh. |